{"id":6792,"date":"2023-07-15T14:28:38","date_gmt":"2023-07-15T14:28:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/?p=6792"},"modified":"2023-10-12T10:38:38","modified_gmt":"2023-10-12T10:38:38","slug":"peace-in-ukraine-public-debate-pakhuis-de-zwijger-june-2023","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/peace-in-ukraine-public-debate-pakhuis-de-zwijger-june-2023\/","title":{"rendered":"Peace in Ukraine – Public Debate – Pakhuis de Zwijger, June 2023"},"content":{"rendered":"

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Public Dialogue<\/h1>\n

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Peace in Ukraine – Time to Talk! Video recording of public debate at Pakhuis de Zwijger, June 30th, 2023. Conversations are in Dutch.<\/p>\n

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De Sprekers<\/h2>\n

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Lidija Zelovic<\/strong><\/h4>\n
Schrijver en documentairemaker<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Ewald Engelen<\/h4>\n
Hoogleraar financi\u00eble geografie UvA<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Derk Boswijk<\/h4>\n
CDA – Tweede Kamerlid<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Tayfun Bal\u00e7\u0131k<\/h4>\n
Historicus en Journalist De Kanttekening<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/em><\/p>\n

Moderator: Jakob de Jonge<\/strong> (Founder HPP, Artist)<\/em>
Organisator: The Hague Peace Projects<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/em><\/p>\n

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Lidija Zelovic<\/strong> is schrijver en documentairemaker. Vanuit haar professionele ervaring als oorlogsverslaggever en haar persoonlijk ervaring als oorlogsvluchteling uit het voormalig Joegoslavi\u00eb pleit Lidija voor waakzaamheid tegen oorlogspropaganda.<\/p>\n

Ewald Engelen<\/strong> is hoogleraar financi\u00eble geografie aan de UvA. Hij heeft zich kritisch uitgelaten over het Europese sanctiebeleid ten aanzien van Rusland.<\/p>\n

Derk Boswijk<\/strong> is Tweede Kamerlid voor de CDA en heeft defensie als \u00e9\u00e9n van zijn portefeuilles. Het CDA is een voorstander van een daadkrachtige militaire reactie vanuit de NAVO voor de verdediging van Oekra\u00efne en steunt onder meer het sturen van F16\u2019s.<\/p>\n

Tayfun Bal\u00e7\u0131k<\/strong> is historicus en journalist bij De Kanttekening.<\/span><\/p>\n

Jakob de Jonge<\/strong> (moderator) is voorzitter van de vredesorganisatie The Hague Peace Projects, en kunstenaar.<\/p>\n

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Doel: <\/strong>Bijdragen aan het publieke debat over de Nederlandse rol in het conflict in Oekra\u00efne.
<\/strong><\/p>\n

Achtergrond: <\/strong><\/p>\n

De crisis<\/em><\/p>\n

De inval van Rusland in Oekra\u00efne is nu bijna anderhalf jaar onderweg. Er zijn naar alle waarschijnlijkheid al meer dan honderdduizend doden gevallen in een conflict dat nu al het bloedigste is op het Europese continent sinds het einde van de Tweede Wereldoorlog. Miljoenen Oekra\u00efners zijn op de vlucht en de humanitaire gevolgen van deze oorlog zijn nauwelijks te overzien.

Verhouding tussen het Westen en Rusland: wederzijdse escalatie<\/em><\/p>\n

Een einde lijkt voorlopig niet in zicht: Rusland lijkt vastbesloten om door te gaan om haar strategische doelen te behalen. Oekra\u00efne lijkt vastbesloten zichzelf tot het einde toe militair te verdedigen. Het Westen \u2013 de VS, de EU en de NAVO- heeft meermaals herhaald Oekra\u00efne net zo lang militair, economisch en politiek te zullen steunen als nodig is. Alle betrokken partijen hebben sinds 24 februari 2022 bijna uitsluitend escalerende maatregelen genomen. Rusland o.a. door mobilisatie en toenemend destructieve militaire operatie die niet alleen gericht is op het Oekra\u00efense leger maar die in toenemende mate ook de Oekra\u00efense civiele infrastructuur onder vuur neemt.<\/p>\n


<\/em>Ook in het Westen is er vanaf het begin van de Russische invasie nauwelijks sprake geweest van een oproep tot dialoog en onderhandelingen. Vanaf het begin was het uitgangspunt van het Westerse buitenlands beleid ten aanzien van Rusland: escalatie. Dit vanuit de aanname dat met Poetin niet te praten valt en dat hij alleen luistert naar vertoon van kracht en geweld. Zoals de Zweedse econoom en lid van de Atlantic Council Anders Aslund in een Twitter bericht stelt: \u201cMemo to Western policy makers: The golden rule in all diplomacy with Russia is: Always escalate! <\/span>Who stops escalating loses. You must escalate until you win.\u201d<\/span>[1]<\/span><\/a> Het Westen escaleert door het nemen van drastische economische sancties en het sturen van in toenemende mate zwaarder militair materieel, waaronder tanks en naar alle waarschijnlijkheid ook F16s.<\/p>\n

<\/span><\/p>\n

De belangrijkste vraag: hoe brengen we een einde aan dit conflict? <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Voor geen van de spelers in dit conflict zijn de vooruitzichten rooskleurig. Het lijkt wellicht vanuit het perspectief van de hoofdactoren de VS en Rusland alsof er iets te winnen valt: een geostrategische overwinning op de vijand een nieuw economisch potentieel of een ander voordeel. Maar het moge duidelijk zijn voor iedereen die de destructie ziet in Oekra\u00efene en de vele duizenden soldaten die er sterven, dat dit in alle gevallen een pyrrhusoverwinning zal zijn. Daarnaast brengt het conflict twee nucleair bewapende staten steeds dichter bij een directe confrontatie. De wereldwijde gevolgen van een dergelijke confrontatie zijn niet te overzien. Het is daarom van het allergrootste belang dat er een vreedzame oplossing voor dit conflict gevonden kan worden. <\/p>\n

<\/span><\/p>\n

Het Debat<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

De meningen in Nederland over dit conflict en de aanpak van het Westen lopen sterk uiteen. In de landelijke media is vooral de analyse dominant dat met Poetin niet te praten is, dat dit ook voor het Westen een existentieel conflict is dat we militair kunnen en moeten winnen. En dat we daarom alles op alles moeten zetten om Oekra\u00efne bij te staan met o.a. wapens, geld en intelligence. Onder de oppervlakte leeft er in allerlei hoeken van de samenleving echter veel twijfel en kritiek op deze aanpak: Kunnen we dit wel militair winnen? Lopen we niet enorme risico\u2019s, zelfs tot en met een (nucleaire) derde wereldoorlog? Waarom hebben we geen poging gedaan om dit te voorkomen? Waarom steken wij hier zoveel geld in en wanneer is het genoeg? Waar is de vredesbeweging?<\/span><\/p>\n

In een debat willen we verschillende visies op dit conflict en de oplossingen daarvan naast elkaar leggen en met elkaar in gesprek brengen. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[1]<\/span><\/a> https:\/\/twitter.com\/anders_aslund\/status\/1602026436298215427<\/p>\n

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Background material:<\/strong><\/h4>\n

\n

Podcast van Jakob de Jonge met Lidija Zelovic:<\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=ewxjIqJi7lI&t=6s<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

\n

Podcast van Jakob de Jonge met Ewald Engelen:<\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=pG0QqY3Dnes&t=6s<\/a><\/p>\n

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Together we can Make Change!<\/h3>\n

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Public DialoguePeace in Ukraine – Time to Talk! Video recording of public debate at Pakhuis de Zwijger, June 30th, 2023. Conversations are in Dutch.De Sprekers Lidija Zelovic Schrijver en documentairemaker Ewald Engelen Hoogleraar financi\u00eble geografie UvA Derk Boswijk CDA – Tweede Kamerlid Tayfun Bal\u00e7\u0131k Historicus en Journalist De Kanttekening Moderator: Jakob de Jonge (Founder HPP, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":6793,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"1080","content-type":"","_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[94,5,111,86],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6792","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-dialogue","category-event","category-peace","category-ukraine"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6792","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6792"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/6792\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/6793"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6792"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=6792"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thehaguepeace.org\/site\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=6792"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}